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The universe - Existence
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Junpei
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 873


Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:40 am    Post subject: The universe - Existence  Reply with quote

What do you believe about the entire universe? Did it "come into being"? If so, when and why?

Do you think the universe (time, space, energy, matter, etc) was long ago, somehow "created" from nothingness?

Or was it somehow already here, as it has been always?

Personally for me, neither makes sense. It couldn't have been there already. If something exists, it needs a beginning to actually develop. But it couldn't have been created either because "time" itself cannot be created. Time is forever. Even if the universe was long ago created from absolute nothingness, time exists already. Think about it, absolute non-existence of anything but time always fits in. If the universe was created, how long was it before that started occuring?

I asked my friend what he thought and it was the same belief as mine.

It does not matter what you believe in, the universe is there, science is somehow like a way of thinking, creating and gathering questions to yourself. It is here, we are here, just accept it.
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Janny
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to think that the Big Bang happened, but I can't process that idea without getting a head ache. And I personally don't buy the whole story about man being created by a superior being, deity, or whatever. I need proof, dammit!

I really don't know what to believe, like you said "If something exists, it needs a beginning to actually develop" so how did Earth started existing? Guess we'll all find out when we die. Maybe everything has one of those "oh, I didn't think of that" answers, but our human minds can't comprehend it yet. Sorry for rambling on without actually making a point, but bottom line for me is that there's something fishy about all this, maybe there are secret governments trying to cover the truth that we're actually gerbils being tested by aliens...
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gleowine
Ekusun Tsukinoe


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 415


Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: The universe - Existence Reply with quote

Junpei wrote:
Personally for me, neither makes sense. It couldn't have been there already. If something exists, it needs a beginning to actually develop. But it couldn't have been created either because "time" itself cannot be created. Time is forever. Even if the universe was long ago created from absolute nothingness, time exists already. Think about it, absolute non-existence of anything but time always fits in. If the universe was created, how long was it before that started occuring?


Actually, this is almost word for word what the philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote in his book "Critique on Pure Reason." I can't remember his conclusions right now. I'd have to re-read it.

I like what Koizumi said in "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya." (i.e. the novel version, translation from Baka-Tsuki):

"The universe exists simply because it is there for us to observe. In other words, the intelligent lifeform known as humans learned of the existence of the universe through observing how the universe was formed by the discovery of the laws of physics. If humans had not evolved to the present level, then observation would be impossible, and they would never learn of the existence of the universe. This means whether the universe exists or not, for a human who hasn't completely evolved, it wouldn't make much of a difference. It is because of the presence of us fully-evolved humans that the existence of the universe is widely accepted. This is the method of thinking from the humans' point of view."

Since I'm one of those that's not completely evolved, I'm totally clueless. Any fully-evolved humans want to comment?
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Nick
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 243


Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, that's a funny way of looking at it.

I'm at a stage where I'm really at a loss for what to believe. I was raised a Anglican and then Baptist Christian so through my childhood I always sort of just accepted that there was this one god. But as I've grown and become more influenced by peers and the media, I've come to question all of that.

I tend to still believe that there is some kind of superior being, just because looking at it any other way is beyond my mental capacity. So maybe I'm taking the easy way out...
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Junpei
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: The universe - Existence Reply with quote

gleowine wrote:


Actually, this is almost word for word what the philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote in his book "Critique on Pure Reason." I can't remember his conclusions right now. I'd have to re-read it.


You probably mean same meaning, a coincidence of word for word seems unlikely. This is just my thoughts.
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Dy.laneA
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Joined: 27 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idk... I don't give it much thought but I've seen the universe and nature in general to be extremly random. From my understanding physics are basically perfect, imperfections in these basic laws would just... make the universe not work correctly.

To get something to reach such a degree of perfection where talking trail and error on an infinent scale. Things happen because they can in nature. Things don't happen becuase they can't happen in nature.

Kind of like water? Water flows where it can, things flow where they can.... hahaha.

I like the idea of "god" being a form more then a being... In my mind all god could really be is literally, everything... Kind of stupid that thoguht though, then god doesnt reallyexist as somethign I couldnt understand haha.
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Nick
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Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 243


Location: Australia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pantheism. You should (if you haven't already) read some of William Wordsworth's poetry. Actually you all should - he has a way of bringing out the hidden beauty of our world in a way similar to Shinkai's.
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gleowine
Ekusun Tsukinoe


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: The universe - Existence Reply with quote

Junpei wrote:
gleowine wrote:


Actually, this is almost word for word what the philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote in his book "Critique on Pure Reason." I can't remember his conclusions right now. I'd have to re-read it.


You probably mean same meaning, a coincidence of word for word seems unlikely. This is just my thoughts.


Of course, I was speaking figuratively. I meant you had similar concepts.
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gleowine
Ekusun Tsukinoe


Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Louisiana

PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, for the record I do believe that God created the universe. Call me old-fashioned, but that's what I believe.
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Phantast
Chobi


Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 196


Location: South of the Mason-Dixon line

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a Christian... I believe God created the universe.

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